Hah, thanks for the writeup. I always love reading about unexperienced people using and installing Fedora and am glad to hear that the NewUI isn't as hard to use as some people claim.
I think I'll run this same test with my family as well (Who each has varied backgrounds) and will report back in a post to the planet. :-)
2012-12-05 08:29 pm (UTC)
Interesting text and I'm almost agree with the points. I've waited long (for many releases) for the new UI and I like it.But I agree that the partitioning spoke is a little "weird". Also, I don't like the colors used in this spoke (e.g. the magenta).
Wow this is awesome! Thank you Josh!!! From a number of reports now I've been suspecting that maybe the very top of the screen is a better place to put the warning bar... I think especially for VMs where sometimes you've got a vertical scroll on the VM viewer.
The non-discoverable reclaim dropdown is an issue we know about too - basically the GTK+ cell renderer for comboboxes will not allow us to make the combobox look like one. :( We will either have to write a custom widget to fix that, or re-design the screen to use a different widget. It is something that was on our radar, but it's good to know we definitely need to fix that.
I didn't realize the warning icons weren't noticeable enough - we can definitely play around with a few different designs on that and see what is most effective.
The done vs. continue has also caused heartburn for a lot of users, we've noticed. We changed the text for the done button to 'done' from 'back'. I think Chris is working on setting a different color background for the bar at the top - I'm not sure if that will help, but the idea is that we put done in the upper left because it makes you go up the hierarchy to the main menu, whereas continue is in the bottom right because it makes you go forward, to the next screen in a linear progression or to the next menu (which right now only has root password on it.) I think it's not really clear right now, but we're hoping making the top look more like a horizontal toolbar will make that 'done' button seem more like a 'go back to the main menu, i'm finished here' rather than a 'i'm commiting to everything here, let's install!' type of button.
I really love how you've added to the conversation with *actual data*! :) Let's hope others take suit!
2012-12-06 02:54 am (UTC)
Maybe make it an icon instead of text?
For example a little grid icon, like in GNOME Control Center might communicate better that the user is taken back to the hub?
2012-12-05 11:21 pm (UTC)
I'd suggest chainging "Done" to "< Back to hub" or something similar, so it'd be more clear.
That's what the text originally said. :) We changed it to 'done' in response to feedback that folks weren't sure if their changes would be saved or not.
2012-12-06 06:38 pm (UTC)
Why not just 'save'?
Also the the background of the item which needs user attention could be in a different color (say yellow) in addition to the yellow warning button.
May be the keyboards etc. could have an 'optional' label (may be in brackets)
There is one thing that concerns me though: "He also moved the mouse to the right bottom corner first, every time." This is what I heard from everybody so far. On the anaconda test day, some people did not even find the 'Done' button in the top left corner. Therefor I filed https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=863841 - but it was closed NOTABUG. How can something not be a bug if it's what 99% of the users expect?
We have a pending visual design fix for that, and I think it'll make the done position more discoverable.
And... FWIW, I do think it is a very real problem that users aren't finding it, and I do recognize that they are having trouble doing so. I do not think, though, moving the button to the bottom right is the solution. The problem is that we have two axes in this UI:
- Top-to-bottom (and back) - moving from a menu screen, down to a spoke screen, back up to the menu screen
- Left-to-right (and continuing forward right) - moving from one spoke screen to another if there's a linear progression (as in storage), or moving from one finished menu screen to the next menu screen ('continue with install' on the first menu screen)
Controlling these motions in the same way will confuse folks in the same way that both the "< back" text confused folks and they asked for it to be labeled "done" and they are still confused and suggesting it be changed again to "< back." They are two different motions. Usually, if you're moving up through a hierarchy, you're going to the upper left, as in say a tree view widget - you move up to hit the parent, and the parent is not indented to they are to the left. (If that makes sense.)
The visual design fix we have pending, that I hope will lessen the confusion, is something like this:http://linuxgrrl.com/fedora-ux/Projects/Anaconda/Prototypes/Previews/back-button-visual.png
I think maybe delineating the general information the install that sits on top from the specific-to-this-screen stuff on the bottom will help make it obvious that the done button brings you back to the menu and that's how you finish the screen. If this visual change isn't enough, maybe some short text in the lower right that says something to the effect of "Return to the main menu when you've finished your changes" might help more. I also like bochecha's idea of using the grid icon the GNOME control center uses to mark the button where you return to the main menu - we could place that icon next to the button text maybe.
Anyway, I don't want it to seem as if anybody's plugging their ears here and pretending this isn't an issue. It is. I just think moving the button will not solve the problem is all. Edited at 2012-12-06 04:31 pm (UTC)
To be fair to the complainers, most of the criticism of newUI has been limited to the custom partitioning spoke, which you didn't send either of your guineau pigs through. Most feedback on the rest of the UI has been pretty positive.
I didn't send them through it for two reasons. The first is that clearly it would be pointless to send a 7 year old through something like that and have any chance of it being completed without me basically doing it for them. The second reason is that I don't believe a typical user will be doing custom partitioning. That isn't to say it isn't important, but I don't think that is a majority case. (For a small data set, ABRT reports the kernel command line which has the root/swap partitions included. The vast majority of the reports I've seen are the typical Fedora default.)
Now, the most complained about spoke might indeed be the custom partitioning spoke. I have no idea. I do know that it isn't the only complained about portion and there are a large number of just complaints in general. So the object wasn't "let's show the haters they're dumb." It was, as I said at the beginning of the post, "is this UI something that is generally usable or is it completely unintuitive."
I don't think all the complaints are worthless. I just wish they'd come with suggestions for improvement.
2012-12-08 12:06 am (UTC)
You really want to hear people tell you that the previous anacondas did custom install UEFI/LVM triple boot beautifully, effortlessly and flawlessly and even let you know what was going to happen before it happened? No, I didn't think so.
Sure! Several people have mentioned that the previous anaconda worked fine, so they see no reason to change it. However, the anaconda developers have repeatedly pointed out that the code behind that was very fragile, stale, and difficult to maintain. Difficult to the point that they had to rewrite a bunch of it, and they wanted to fix some of the unnecessary steps during the install.
So after hearing that explanation, I would love to hear more feedback about how to fixup the new UI. Suggestions would be great. Most people don't offer constructive feedback at that point though, they just remain irritated it changed at all. That's OK too, but it isn't very productive.
2012-12-06 08:53 am (UTC)
Next real challenge would be to test with 70 years old people.
If you are doing a *default* install, it would be equally easy easy with the old UI, just press "next" until you end-up with a (somewhat) working system. Second, without any help, your son would have completed the install? From what I read, not, in at least a couple of places he needed input from you.
I agree about the Beta waring being one of the installers' highlights and the "Done" button one of the biggest flaws.
From your experiment, can you tell, if for your test subjects, the new Anaconda UI was a better experience compared with the old one?
Yes! I had this same thought about the old installer. Clicking next would result in a working system. Honestly, I don't think that is a bad thing. I shows ease of use and accomplishes the goal of getting Fedora on the machine, which is what I was looking for with newUI as well. Neither test subject has installed F17, but I might try it later and get some comparison opinions. Frankly, I would expect my wife to say the older installer was a more familiar style.
As for my son completing it without any help, it was fairly close to that. His questions were:
1) "We don't live in New York", so I explained timezones again to him. I could have just let him find the nearest town to us and he would have been fine.
2) He didn't know what a 'Proxy' was in the Network Tab, so I explained that.
3) He wasn't sure the Installation Source was selected because I did a network install, but the URL was already in the box so he just asked me if it was correct or not. If we had done a DVD install, there would have probably been less confusion.
He lives with me, so perhaps he's absorbed random computer knowledge though listening to me talk about them and osmosis. I'm certainly willing to conceded that he isn't a typical random 7 year old in that regard. I mean, I did say this was entirely unscientific.
It's worth noting that he wouldn't have had any of those questions if he noticed the only spoke he had to do was the Installation Destination one.